Ralph Davis Reptiles - The Martrix

"Importing _ Question" - on RDR Forum on 5/12/03

Below is a post made on the RDR Forum asking about " Importing New Morphs"

1.)Do trappers contact the big breeders when they find something new?
2.)Is there a price or do the breeders make an offer?
3.) Do breeders pass up on a lot of what is found and wait for the really neat ones to pop up?
4.) what happens to the snakes when none of the big breeders need or want them?
5.) How does a small breeder go about getting a new animal straight from Africa?
6.) What kind of prices are paid for morphs strait from Africa....such as albino, ghosts, and whatever else.
That lavender albino that Bob Clark and Mike Wilbanks got a while back sure seemed like a steal of a deal.
I'm just curious, I would like to be able to pick up some strange stuff that the bigger breeders pass up on.

I thought it was a great question and responded below...........

1. Trappers rarely contact the breeders………..the poor trappers usually sell their snakes to another person in Africa who already has a bunch of contacts/ buyers in the US………..the trapper gets squat for the snake………..example: a trapper finds a caramel Albino………..sells it to the “middle man” for $500.00 and the “middle man” charges someone in the US $17,500.00…………that’s how it goes down most of the time…………….but some trappers are getting much smarter…………they are checking prices on the internet……….they know what these snakes sell for……………so they avoiding “the middle man” when ever they can…………and their prices are still lower than the “middle man”………..I know I have trappers over in Africa with digital cameras, when they spot something that I would be interested in………..they snap a pic………….go to an internet café and send me the pics…………..

2. There is usually always a price set before the breeder has seen it………….some breeders will try to get the price lowered…………and some will not…………I myself pay what ever the asking price is………….and if it goes higher and I think it is worth it…………I will pay that price too………….sometimes the price will go higher because another breeder is interested in the same snake and making “offers”………….sometimes the “offers” are all BS and the seller is just trying to make you worry and drive the price up………….it’s a hard call to make………….that’s why I would just rather pay the money and get the snake here…………yes sometimes a few breeders have to go “head to head” to get a new snake in…………but most of the time it is “first see, first buy”………all the Big Breeders get pics from Africa this time of year……..so we all pretty much know that each other know about what is over there………….but sometimes a snake will surface and only one or two breeders will know about it…………and if it is a really nice one………..that makes it sweet………..because you know that the price will not go up after each phone call………….I have also made offers on snakes………..it just depends on what’s going on…………every deal is totally different………..the seller is saying that the trapper wants more money…yada, yada, yada………..it is usually BS………..the trappers are usually scared of the “middle man”…………so they just sell the snake and get what they can for it…………..they know they are getting screwed most of the time……..

3. Yes breeders pass up stuff all the time………I know I get many pictures through-out the collecting and hatching season…………most of the snakes are legitimate aberrant snakes………….but not enough to support a worthy project………I guess the safest thing to do is buy them all……………but I can’t do that…………not enough room to devote to every aberrant ball python that you can get your hands on………I like to pick and chose what I buy………..I have passed on Caramels, Pieds, Pastels and many other cool snakes…………I’m just waiting for the rarer snakes to surface…………..like The Patternless……….like it or not…………at this time it is damn rare………….rarer than any white snake, that’s for sure…………..and the white snake was to be the rarest!!...........but anyway……….yes………snakes get passed up all of the time………..not to mention that England and Germany are buying snakes up out of Africa the same as the US is…………so some snakes never even get offered to the US and visa versa………….who knows what kind of cool snakes are in England that we have no clue about??

4. All the snakes find a home somewhere…………….if the breeders do not import them……………a “jobber” will……………and then you will see the snake on a classified board being offered for sale…………..so they all get sold one way or another………it kinda sucks……………but that is how it is done…..

5. A small breeder better do their homework and find some African contacts if they want a piece of the pie…………..and it ain’t easy…………I would never give up my sources……….and either will other breeders………..we may talk among ourselves about certain snakes………..only because we know that the other person knows anyway…………but that’s about it…………contacts are kept secret……..it costs a ton of money to do well getting snakes out of Africa…………..most snakes that are bought are worth every penny they charge for…………..and then there are also many that people get “hosed on” big-time…………and they are usually the “newbies”………..I went into Africa as a “newbie” many years ago…………..I have spent well over $100,000.00 over there………….I have been screwed………….I had $65,000.00 stolen from me………..I have had really bad times over there………….but I have also scored on some killer new mutations that make it all worth while………….it just all depends on the “value” you put on a project in your own mind…………..if your cool with it………..then do it………

6. Prices range depending on who is selling them………….a price straight from the trapper is cheap…………..Albinos for $250.00 to $500.00…………Ghosts and Pastels are $100.00 to $500.00………….it’s the super crazy stuff that the trappers try to get primo dollars for………….a perfect example is my new Patternless male…………I got him from the trapper………….I paid $12,500.00 for him…………I got him before the snake went to Noah……….if Noah got the snake……….he would have easily got triple the price………..maybe even more………….I know I would have paid at least $50,000.00 for the Patternless male…………no questions asked…………and so would other breeders……….I was on the Phone with Brian from BHB a few days ago…………..he found out about the Patternless about the time I had it on a plane to the US………….if he would have been on it sooner………….I’m sure the snake would have cost more money…………then more breeders would have found out about it and expressed interest…………then the price would go higher again………..it would have eventually went to the breeder who was willing to spend the most cash on the snake…………it pays to have a few people in Africa poking around to see “what’s new” at all times………….

Yeah……….the Lavender Albino that Bob Clark picked up was a bargain……….and a risk………..I had that snake ‘locked up” for a moment…………then I let her go………….Bob Clark called me and asked what was up…………..I told him that I had enough of the Lavender Albino stock to do well……………he asked if I thought he should buy her………….I said yes you should………….he had her at his place two days later…………..and she did perfect for him………….

Africa is all about money………….believe me………..that is all it is about…………sure there are deals to get over there…………..but not many………….Africa has wised up to the mutations and prices that we charge…………..so they want primo dollar for all the good stuff……………..I’m totally down with that…………I have no problem putting out several thousand dollars if I’m confident that I can do well with the snake and get money back out of it………….I’m just at a point now where I’m “cherry picking”

It hurts my ego to see another breeder get in a new Killer mutation……….maybe one that “slipped under my nose”………….or one that I waited to long on to make a decision………….but as long as it is in the country and healthy…………that’s’ really all that matters………….it’s nice to let others do the work and just buy into the project after the offspring have been produced…………if you have a great name in the business and work really hard………….you can do well at any level you buy into the project.......

Ralph