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"MARKET_FLAME" - on Kingsnake.com's Ball Python Forum

Below is a post made on the KS Ball Forum that raised quite a stink..........

Over the last week or so, many people have offered their opinions on the "Ball python market" This has always been a topic which has bothered us for the reasons which we will state. Perception is sometimes considered reality, however, the real reality is THERE IS NO BALL PYTHON MARKET! The fewer animals that are available will raise prices depending on demand, but anyone who buys these animals thinking that they are going to do as well as a limited few has got a rude wake up call coming. We like others here own & breed "Ball python morphs" however, we have only once ever received what most would consider "market value" for any of them sold, most were sold for far less money! The people that keep these morphs only make money when they hook you into believing that you too can be as successful as they are, but reality is, it's not likely. There are very few five thousand plus dollar customers out there and now even more people are selling the animals that were once available in limited quantities. Most people that you come across do not have large amounts of disposable cash available, however, your animals can always be used a trade item to obtain more morphs. When a customer does come along and has to choose who to buy from, their choice would be clear, they would prefer to buy from "insert big name breeder here" over you the part time hobbyist. Now there is nothing wrong with their choice, after all, it's the same choice you probably made. But it doesn't help you in your new investment and business venture. So now that you spent the big, big, money on the hot new morph and NO ONE will give you the same respect or time of day that they give the larger breeders, what will you do? Desperation of not loosing everything in your investment will force you to sell your animals for less. Yes, you will sell them for less and be glad to be rid of them and happy with the revenue that you received a mere fraction of what you paid. By doing this, people will complain and accuse YOU of destroying the market, but it sure beats getting nothing for them at all! Animals are probably the very worst investment that one could make, after all, the purpose of any investment is that your hard earned money will grow into more isn't it! There are too many variables that are involved in breeding reptiles for profit that can turn your investment into a great big ZERO, things like your animals not reproducing, eggs going bad, death, etc.! There is absolutely no stability of price in the reptile market and everyone has lost at one time or another. The business of reptiles is not controlled or monitored by people with Masters of economics or business degrees, most are normal people that could never have seen business of reptiles turning into what it has and therefore without traditional structuring there will never be any long term growth or price control. The response from any breeder that has sold you a high dollar snake that has lost value may be "I lost on that one too" "you can al least sell more snakes to make back your money" "boy, we didn't see that coming" if anyone who invests in stocks that were recommended to them from a broker heard a response like that, they would remove what remaining money they had from their control and NEVER do business with them again. In fact, they would recommend that everyone else stays clear away. Now the animals in question are desirable to say the least, but don't buy them for investments, buy them to be the jewels of your collection. If you never sell them, you never loose money on them and that's a fact! We understand that this post will be read by many and responded to, however, we just thought we would post this as food for thought

Above is what was said to start "The Flame"...............below is my response to it..........there were several other great responses as well.............the person who wrote this did call me on the phone once the flames began............he told me his reasons for what he wrote...........he has obviously been hurt and angered by a breeder who's name will not be named...............he was angry when he wrote it.............I personally think he should have just went head-on at the breeder he was so pissed at ...............instead he went this route?

Wow!!!...........finally a person speaks up for all the angry people out there getting “ripped off” by the illusion???..........So the reality is that there is “No Ball Python Market”………….this is all just fantasy??..............the millions of dollars spent each year on ball python mutations is just a waste?............it is there strictly to line the pockets of the big breeders?.......A “ limited few”…………obviously you are not going to be one of those……......that is your rude wake up call………..I think your on the same kick as some of the other people out there not willing to work hard to sell snakes “ if you can’t hang……..then you just piss on the whole market”………..try working harder at preserving a good thing instead of trashing it because you feel like it is failing………why be so selfish?......... Your wrong…………there are many people out there that can afford ball python morphs over $5,000.00………….you would not know these people because you can not attract that kind of buyer………people will only buy from a person like you to take advantage of your stupidity…………..you could never bring a new mutation to the market with your way of thinking. “Trade item”??.............who’s collecting here?............trading is fine if it helps you get the mutations you need to further your projects………….but you make it sound like a “way out”……..sure a person would like to buy from a big named breeder……is there a limit as to how many big named breeders there will or can be in the world?………….are we stuck in time??...........is this the end of the line?…………….will there never be another successful ball python breeder out there who can sell snakes for high dollar?...........As far as nobody giving a new breeder any respect……….that is just wrong……..any buyer with a lot of money to spend, watches who he/she wants to buy from very carefully…………they make their own decisions on who they feel did the best job selling the snake and to who they feel the most comfortable with…………there is plenty of room for new breeders who work hard to sell their snakes…………these would be new people who gain customers with hard work and dedication…………not a “half price” sale …….and “ need money” ads every other week……that is no way to get respected in this business…….it is easily seen as short term…..…you have to work hard to sell your own snakes in this market………..it is that simple………….nobody said selling snakes was easy…………..what is easy is “selling out on the market”………..that is easy...........ball pythons deserve respect………..they are the most exciting snakes on the planet…………my sales and emails of interest don’t go down………….they go up………..every day………..they go up. This market is not going anywhere………..it is just being attacked lately by people who want it easy. Desperation?..............I can not believe you even put that in the post………..if your post doesn’t sound like a desperate call for help………..I don’t know what does…………LOL…………..”help, I’m desperate to sell my snakes, I can’t seem to sell them……all the big breeders have the market cornered”………yeah right…….......You say you will be “forced to sell for less”………..well what is less actually………….a few hundred………….a few thousand………..what is wrong with that?...........nothing……..advertising can make you or break you………nobody loves the cheapest guy in town for long.........you can sell for less with-out looking cheap..........some buyers shop around for prices………..most big breeders will rarely match a low price, why should they?……......How can you say “you’ll be glad to be rid of them”…….. sounds like a person trying to turn a quick buck with out working for it……….speak for yourself………….I see nothing wrong with having snakes on the shelf…………they only become more valuable…………as you would say “a mere fraction”…………unbelievable!............You say that being accused of destroying the market in which you believe does not exist, beats getting nothing for your snakes……..hmm……….nothing huh?............what ever could have happened to you as a breeder that you would say such things?..........you have lost all hope it seems. I have to disagree with you on animals being the worst investment one could ever make…………maybe for you they are...............I seriously doubt any successful breeder right now agrees with you at all…………..they are a ton of work that is for sure………..they are not strictly investments………..they are a way to make money at doing what you love……………you invest in yourself…………and YOU are crap out of luck in that department………….you invest in “You”……………what can “You” do with the snakes………….it is your fault………….not the snake’s fault if you can not sell your snakes………think about it………….why would it be hard to sell the exact same snake as I?.............we both have the same price………….maybe you’re a little cheaper………..cool…………..but why would you loose the sale?.............I wonder?.............Getting back to investments………….and making your money grow…………mine is growing nicely………….and it ain’t in stocks………it is because I believe in what I do……….and I attract the same type of people……….you could do the same if you were not so busy trying to figure out why the Ball Python market “isn’t there”……..tell that to the top breeders in the country who have probably grossed “together” a few million dollars in the past couple years………….and put half of it back into their projects…………You talk about “variables”……………sure there are variables that can make you crash and burn one season…………but then there are variables that can send you to the moon!!!..............people who spend big money on the mutations are people who already are confident that they can breed ball pythons well……………so they take the next step and spend big money…………..a normal ball breeds the same way as a morphed out ball…………..it just has less zeros in it’s price…………..but for you to say it ain’t worth the risk??................maybe for you it’s not………….but for many other people……….it is well worth the risk.........this ain’t corn snakes………..this is ball pythons……….everyone knows that ball python mutations are expensive……….if you don’t like a little “risk” with your money……….then don’t do ball pythons……......I know of many success stories out there…........from customers and friends………….these people do exist………..they are doing well and building their collections……….this does not happen over night. ……they are all so excited to produce and start selling they can taste it………and they will!!....….You talk about the snakes not laying eggs, no production………bad health…………no fooling man…………who does not expect that to happen when working with animals………….who told you it was going to be perfect??..........the fact that it is not perfect all the time is what helps things last for everyone………….it’s good to bomb sometimes. Your right…………there is a problem with stability in the market that you say does not exist…………but it is balanced out by the breeders who support it………….there will always be more good in this market than bad…………good breeders spawn new good breeders………..who in their right mind wants this to end??............only the jealous people want it to crash and burn………….and we can see right through those people………..it is so easy to know who is the “angry crapped on down on their luck breeder”…or who is in it for “quick money”……….and then PUFF……….their gone……I’m glad the trash gets taken out regularly………thank god the big breeders out there who bomb on some projects every year don’t throw in the towel and get angry at “the market”……….instead they suck it up and keep going………..don’t think for a minute that VPI, NERD, The Snake Keeper or any other big breeders out there don’t have snakes on their shelves that they could easily sell for less…………they do………and they will let them sit there before they start crying about how their “investment” didn’t go as planned………why would they purposely “sell out” and risk it all going down the tubes?..........they could easily do that………what if they did?..........the “market” then would be ZERO……..that would be fair right?............one person gets a little shaky……….who cares about the rest………….lets just bale!!!……….instead, they know the snakes will sell……..why??............because of the most important thing in the business………..”Repeat customers”……….how could we have them??.............because a great breeder not only breeds snakes well…………they treat their customers well…………it’s a total package, that YOU only have about ¼ of…….now you will just say that we have “repeat suckers”………..but your wrong………..these customers know exactly what is going on………..they see right through the BS……..why else would they re-invest in such total crap you would say???.......……I think the whole point you are missing is that it is hard work to make this kind of money on snakes, you think they are over-priced, bad investments and risky…………maybe you should get out while the getting is good…………I hear the sky is falling and that the stock market is kicking butt!!!….......maybe we are masters of our own economics after all?.....................you see it your way……….and I just wrote the way I see it……….two different views on the same subject…………”The Market”………….one from a person who is successful at it………….and one from a person who “seems” not to have any faith left in it? …………..we each deserve to tell the way we see it…………..I though I was done battling here for awhile………I’m sure you knew I would love your post!.......I have a great quote from Tracy……….” Why is it so hard to “make” people make money?”……..and one from Bob Clark…………” I work hard to sell each and every snake I produce because I have to”

You know, I have had a web-site for 4 years now………….maybe less………….I came out of nowhere with a big mouth……….snakes to sell at the EXACT same prices as “ The Breeders”………..I have grossed well over $800,000.00 in sales over those few years………….all the snakes I sold were on other breeders sites for the same price…………I was a nobody…………Imagine that?.........yep………nobody ever seen me coming??..............Why would people even buy from me………”The Unknown”…….....because I stuck it out and found my own way to sell in this market……There was a hole for me to fill…………and I filled it…….…I showed the established breeders that I respected them and the prices they set………….when I was mad…………..I took it out on other people…………..not the “market” that I was trying so hard to be successful at………that’s just stupid!!!

Thanks……………Ralph

 
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